Archbishop Favalora Accused of Turning Miami Archdiocese Into "Corrupt Homosexual Superculture"

Categories: News
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Oh, Jesus Christ. Gawker has a whopper of a story today accusing Archbishop Emeritus John C. Favalora of running the Miami Archdiocese of the Catholic Church like some sort of gay sex mafia.

The report, penned by former New Times contributor and theater critic Brandon K. Thorp, gathers information from an intensive investigation by a group of South Florida Catholics calling themselves "Christifidelis." Their accusation might have played a behind-the-scenes part in Favalora's replacement last year as archbishop by Thomas Wenski.

Thorp got a hold of the report by Christifidelis, cheekily titled "Miami Vice," and runs down some of the accusations:
Here are just some of the un-Catholic behaviors that "Miami Vice" accuses Favalora of engaging in: He partially owned a company that manufactured Yohimbe, an aphrodisiac beverage marketed to horny club-kids with the promise of "the hands-down best sex of your life." He allegedly took frequent trips to fabulous Key West with his gay associates. He was over-familiar toward his seminarians. (One ex-employee of the diocese recalls him telling a young seminarian at a gathering to "Come to papa and sit on my lap.") Favalora's second- and third-in-command, Monsignor William Hennessey and Monsignor Michael Souckar, are both accused by Christefidelis of being active homosexuals--and if they are, that counts among the least of their difficulties with Catholic orthodoxy.
Thorp also calls St. John Vianney College Seminary, located in Southwest Dade, "a kind of gay Hogwarts with palm trees" that has a long history of gay sex scandals and hookups between horny young students. One former student, Peter Fuchs, tells Thorp he had sex and a fiery relationship with the rector, Bernie Kirlin, who later became a priest in Coral Gables. Though, Fuchs has already recounted much of that story before.

The story also mentions tons of other priests in South Florida accused of homosexuality. They include several priests with live-in boyfriends, several priests who lived together as lovers, another with a luxury property in Coral Gables who liked to indulge in drugs, another who enjoyed nude jogging, one priest who regularly flashed his privates at young men, one official who participated in sex trafficking of young boys, and another who was into bondage.

Yes, all of this from members of the world's leading crusaders against things like gay rights and birth control.

It's alleged that Favalora encouraged this kind of behavior, or at least did his best to keep it under wraps and took action against those who complained.

And that, folks, is barely the tip of the iceberg. Few people go on record for the story, and all the facts in the report were put together by the loosely organized Christifidelis, so who knows how reliable the information is. That said, there could be plenty of priests in the Miami area with sins far greater than those of Father Alberto Cutié, the former Catholic celebu-priest who dared to have a girlfriend.

[Gawker: The Catholic Church's Secret Gay Cabal]

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76 comments
lycheenap
lycheenap

Is a measure of a kinder gentiler society, all my jewish friends are gay or lesbian and think its about time, the780 million join them, the 14 million new york and south florida jewish qays and trannies.

Henryvonhassel
Henryvonhassel

when we talk about tons of priests are we talking about more than 10,000 lbs?

HECTOR GONZALEZ
HECTOR GONZALEZ

fellows...if the catholic church in Miami is the way you are talking about why don't you go to the Tribunal of the Archdiocese of Miami at the Pastoral Center on Biscayne Boulevard and present your complaint with complete names and adresses of offenders and victimized people. You will make a good favor to the Church. Go ahead.Be honest and sincere.Present the case to the Vicar of Justice in writing and be present when you received a subpaena by them.Justice should be done, but real Justice.hector gonzalez august 5 2011

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs like.author.displayName 1 Like

Nemo judex in causa sui. 

michael wind
michael wind

nice religious society,the most likely way to get troat cancer is ...

Guest
Guest

If any of these accusations have any merit at all, then I would really appreciate it if the names of these priests to be published. I don't like to be lied to. Not by the Church or this publication. How about the truth, and nothing but the truth.

Queenvic83
Queenvic83

How about bring in the law that Priests can GET Married, then u wont have so much "Accusations" of Homo Acts..This is why "Cutie" left and actually got Married with kids..

Nicolpindelea
Nicolpindelea

6 from 10 man has been sexual abuse by the age of 11 in America most of them by a the church ( altar boys) in my religion never happend why?!? I am Greek orthodox.....they get married have a family but when they are in god house he dose his duty. .... By thinking that u can leave a life time with out having what other can. ...That makes no sense. ...Look where they all get to. .....Sins and hell. .....

RepublicofMiami
RepublicofMiami like.author.displayName 1 Like

WOW... TREMENDO D-R-A-M-A... i love the new times lol... and that is that one of their blogger bashed me hahahah everyone knows each other it is so funny... 1. I am a PROUD GRADUATE OF ST. JOHN VIANNEY COLLEGE SEMINARY2. I am not Gay and think this article is extremely sensational and ridiculous3. I was also added by mr. Guinta on facebook and briefly interviewed... he is still on my facebook ...4. For four years I attended St. John's.  It has excellent education and training, many good and serious people attended it and some not so good...but I NEVER experienced or saw with my own eyes this freak fest orgy gay sex fantasy fest that is talked about... was there gay relationships at st. john's...sure i would be my  money on it... were there hetereosexual relationships going on...sure i would be on it too... but there were genuine faithful people there.   I loved St. John's and can never speak bad about it at this level... SUREEEE i had/have a lot of critiques and was one of the most vocal rebels there...but i never cared nor paid any attention to this type of drama... 5.  I think Mr. Fuchs is a youtube fan of mine??? he can answer that ... i do the comedy videos... 6.  I am a Catholic Libertarian... "catholic" as Guinta says... but i would say he is a "libertarian" ... I don't seek to fight anyone here but Mr. Guinta... i think you are a super neo conservative but hey whatever... we need allies in the upcoming civil war... 7. Let people be. Every Institution has problems. I personally do not care what the hell you think or who you sleep with.  I will never speak for ALLAH and say he hates or loves one people over another... in the end this is all B.S. ... I don't think Jesus was concerned with your sexual issues as much as deep important issues that really deal with the soul and heart...8.  What we should not tolerate GAY OR STRAIT are people with hidden agendas and those who LIE.  If you are GAY be open about it , If you are Str8 be open about it. that is it.9.  You guys should be talking about more important issues like the Gay Ants that live in the Trees that the Haitians are killing in Little Haiti...10.  ALLAHU AKBAR...11. tHIS IS ALL SO ABSURD... so many pissed off people with agendas... WHO CARES... be good , be true, be authentic, be yourselves... do not lie, do not be fake, do not be a fraud.12. I AM RUNNING FOR COMMISSIONER AND HOPE YOU SUPPORT THE REVOLUTION !!! BRUNO BARREIRO IS GOING DOWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.  - unorthodox, anti-establishment, anarcho-libertarian, conservative, liberal, ricardismo satire for da winnnnnnnnnnnnn lol....

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

Yes!!! I am not a fan of the oxymoronic notion of Catholic libertarianism. (Did they fall asleep during the Catholic Social Teaching class??) But I am a fan of this dude's video's. He is hilarious!  Truly! The one with the white-trash Southern accent where he is riding a hobby-horse  is incredible!! Highly recommended. You see, there is something special about a St. John Vianney education. The ways of God are mysterious for all of us!

REpublicofMiami
REpublicofMiami

I consider myself a libertarian but i think Ron Paul libertarians have a lot more in common with progressives on many issues such as civil liberties, the WARs, the police state, the criminal federal reserve bank and corporative bail outs... so i do think that these tenants of this type of libertarianism is actually beneficial for the social teaching connection... Barnie Frank and Dennis Kucinich and even Cynthia Mckinney have praised this type of position held by libertarians... now there are a lot of new fake fraud libertarians which are the Neo-conservative war mongerors that have infiltrated and radicalized the tea party and the other movement... but do not be fooled... there are many libertarians that do have social conscience and i think if we would not be quick to dismiss them they could be a great ally in the fight against tyranny... just a thought... 

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

You should do a video about Cynthia McKinney defending Khadafi. Now that would be funny, Ricky!  Adelante, 'chacho. 

REpublicofMiami
REpublicofMiami

HAHAH *correctionnn *** "SURE I WOULD BET ON IT TOO" lol not BE lol I would bet there are good and bad people on both sides.

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

Also, the "More About" links provided here above  refer not to me but  to my father, a well-known musician in South Florida. 

sublime69
sublime69

So what else is new , they have a legacy to live up to  not only for our times but ancient times also. These VULTURES dont get a dime from me or a minute of my time, thats the way to hurt them the most.

Kathleenriney
Kathleenriney like.author.displayName 1 Like

It's not just the RC church. What's happening now is "payback" from the past 35 yrs of infiltration of our Seminaries. The RC Church has been attacked from the inside. Easy to do, since "Catholic bashing" has always been 'PC'!!  Let's hear some more stories about the homosexual "Action" groups & political Pacs!  You know, the un-edited media coverage of their "Gay Pride" parades. Of course you couldn't show it on reg. TV!  Or, how about when "Act Up" took Eucharist from the priests in St. Pat's & spit on them, threw them on the ground, &, in at least on act "caught on tape" urinated publicly on the Host. There is NOTHING secret about the queers in our Church trying to destroy it!  The only "secret" things are the tapes of their gay parades, the disgusting things they have to do to "prepare" to "cruise" the gay bars, & how much Tampax they have to use. Disgusting you say?!! I completely agree! 

Kathleenriney
Kathleenriney

OK, When are they going to expose Dallas Tx.?

Thom Wheeler Castillo
Thom Wheeler Castillo

I love how blatantly homophobic this expose is. In one paragraph, homosexuality includes having lived in boyfriends all the way to nude jogging and flashing to selling young boys into the sex trade! Everything gay catholic must be this morally corrupt! And the only person who gets sympathy is the straight priest who wanted a gf?!

Where is the integrity in this reporting? Or is this a gossip column? WHO IS THE EDITOR who signed off on this?

This just propels stereotypes and it dumb downs the dialogue. Maybe the efforts of the writer should occupied with a little queer theory and an exercise in rational thinking. Leave your bias to a minimum. As for these ALLEGATIONS, it'd be interesting to see if were based off of first hand accounts or heavily distorted gossip.

Remember the game Telephone? Where a circle of children whisper a phrase, passing it down from one point in the circle till the other end? And it ends with a ridiculous distortion of the original word? Yeah, well, your article shouldn't be just another child in the game. It should be the exact opposite of this.

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

Thom,

I want to respond to your comment because I think it is very on point. And let's be clear that the point is essentially  the convoluted approach of Catholic clergy towards gay people. I want to make clear that in no way am I speaking for the author, whom I experienced as  sharp person, and can thus certainly speak for himself if he wants to. But I think what makes this particular case so slippery is that it involves the attitudes of an apparently strongly burgeoning group, namely Catholic libertarians. I am increasingly learning that this Catholic libertarian movement is very large, and I can say with confidence that it is a fairly recent phenomenon, because it was not around much when I was in the Church. Let's leave aside for the moment the the prima facie question of whether these Catholic libertarians are libertarians at all. Because they seem, almost to a man, to be devoted to the most strident right-wing and ultramontane views. In practice they seem to generally support regressive views of social morality and the government's right to interfere in private lives. But, strangely, this is not what they think of themselves. They imagine that in fact they paradoxically maintain a societal view of liberty, while pushing a view where religion is very strong because they believe the state should not be. I am not saying any of this adds up, even by a "classically liberal" logic. But this is what they think, in various permutations thereon. 

This background is crucial in getting how this article came to be, it seems to me. I believe the author, Brandon K. Thorp shares a somewhat libertarian view, at least that is what I gleaned from my interview with him. And, further, I believe that he felt some level of common ground on that level with these Catholic libertarians who produced the "J'Accuse" document, even if it was clear that he did not agree on the gay issue with them. Well, I know a thing or two about these Catholic libertarian types at this point having tangled with them online. On this basis, I want to delineate broadly that I did try to persuade Thorp to address the question differently. But frankly had I known the temper and content of the "dossier" I would have done even more. I think in fact it is the presence of the dossier that gives the article a different color, not the article itself. I think the article is in fact quite informative and well-researched, and those elements that might not admix with "queer theory", as you aver, are  not  inherently addressed as "anti" anything. In other words, the assumptions from which it was written are quite different from that.  But the dossier is a different story. 

Of course without knowing people directly one cannot truly  begin to make any kind of psychological assessment, and of course ultimately such should be left for professionals anyways. Yet one can note evidence of dysfunction from expressive style.  In addition,  one can also  glean a lot from writing style as to dysfunction qua expression, in terms of the general tendency towards what shrinks call "word salad": incoherent means and ends. Thus, while it is possible that those who were behind this dossier are in fact paranoids, we can't know for sure. But we can say this for sure, to my mind: that the whole effort if clearly an expression of the paranoid style.  A slam dunk. This operates in two ways. First, the complex lives of these priests are reduced to seemingly to paranoid tropes for a mind that hates gay people. They are all -- repeatedly! -- "active homosexuals." Now, second,  if the words "active homosexual" have any meaning it betokens at least -- duh! -- that they are having sex. Now I happen to have known some of these characters. And while I don't have trouble believing they are gay men, I sort of don't see them engaging in lots of booty calls at their advanced ages. So, either the producers of the document are indeed truly paranoid in seeing hyper-sexed gay men everywhere, even improbably  amongst the near-geriatric clerical set, or something worse. Namely, they simply hate gay people, and probably because of their own unresolved conflicts. What makes the whole matter particularly labyrinthine is that in the Catholic realm nowadays, if one wanted to bring out the truth, one would have to "give the devil its due" and interact with such  disturbed reactionaries, who might be the only ones with certain information. My attitude, which again I encouraged for the author too, was that such dealing with the devil, the  reactionary, should be done with a heightened sense of scrutiny and skepticism. I think one of the good things about the article is that one can see that in the finished product, to some extent. 

Lastly, I can only give my personal impression of the author. I know that gay men can sometimes have hidden homophobia themselves. But Thorp gave no evidence of that in any way to me. Ultimately, the complexity here is, as I said, connected with the really insoluble contradictions of Catholic libertarianism: a Catholic abortion if there ever was one!

javier rivero
javier rivero

live in Miami, I'm Catholic, I do not like the Archbishop Favalora but never hear anything of what you say or saw no sign of what this despicable article says. Who is "Christifidelis" who is their spokesperson? mencioneme a name of someone of this alleged association?  you are nothing but haters and detractors the same as always. you are the same who defamed the Jews in the twentieth century, you are the same ones that laid the foundations of the Holocaust and now you want to do the same with the Church. You are wasting your time, when no one will remember you the Church will continue preaching the Gospel. The gates of hell shall not prevail.

Javier Rivero
Javier Rivero

I live in Miami, I'm Catholic, I do not like the Archbishop Favalora but never hear anything of what you say or saw no sign of what this despicable article says. Who is "Christifidelis" who is your Spanish - detected to English translationI live in Miami, I'm Catholic, I do not like the Archbishop Favalora but never hear anything of what you say or saw no sign of what this despicable article says. Who is "Christifidelis" who is your spokesperson? mencioneme a name of someone of the alleged association? NO and you are nothing but haters and detractors the same as always. you are the mimes who defamed the Jews in the twentieth century, you are the same ones that laid the foundations of the Holocaust and now they want to do the same with the Church. You are wasting your time when no one will remember you the Church will continue preaching the Gospel. The gates of hell shall not prevail.

henneberry1
henneberry1

There will be hell to pay, ladyboys, hell to pay.  Turn to your Eternal Father who will welcome you, heal you and comfort you. You can do it with His help.

PaulHalsall
PaulHalsall

This strikes me as an anti-gay witch hunt.

Mvaz53
Mvaz53

Sick, sick, sick all of them.  If they are gay fine, who cares.  But most of them are not gay, they are pedophiles who prey on innocent children and that is a supreme crime.

Kill trees on NE 62
Kill trees on NE 62

Ever been to Haiti? Everything gets killed there.

Now the Haitians and Notre Dame Church want to kill oak trees that have survived over 120 years.

Priests kill trees
Priests kill trees

Why is the Archdiosese so desperate to butcher 100 to 150 year old oak trees?

Why does the Church want to destroy the tree canopy at NE 2nd Avenue at NE 62nd Avenue?

Will more priests get arrested?

Haitians kill trees
Haitians kill trees

Haitian Catholic Church Notre Dame wants to kill 100 year old oaks to build a bigger church so the gay priests can find more children to molest.

Killing trees?Molesting children?

YP
YP

Instead of writing about generalizing all priests of being homosexual, why don't you research about those Catholic hospices that are taking care of terminally ill patients? Have you asked how many Catholic Churches in Miami have a kitchen to make food for homeless? But of course, these are the type of articles that are mostly read. 

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

Your excellent former theater critic wrote a great article.  The curious thing about the article, given all the gay allusions,  is that one of the sources is a rabid right-wing nut named Eric Giunta. And given that he has a post about the article on RenewAmerica, I want to take the opportunity to respond here. This fellow is all bothered that he was ousted from his seminary career before it even began. Like many reactionaries these days, he fancies himself something other than he is, and what reasonable people take him to be. He has ironically  a breathtakingly poor knowledge of his own faith community's long history, but of course that does not stop him from confabulating it in such a way that the very hatred for gay people he espouses is somehow a great love the Catholic Church has long shown. But it gets worse for confabulation. When I spoke to the very sharp Brandon K. Thorp I was not at all surprised that he did not have maximal suspicion of the motives of such a fellow. You have to have made a concerted study of these types to know it, and having a lot theology under your belt as well to get the contradictions. And on a simpler level it helps of course to have been to the seminary, which Brandon K. Thorp is to shrewd to have done. But the tender Mr. Giunta wanted into the seminary, and when he was rejected he conceived an animus to get even. This is a pretty easy psychological read, I think. I think he should thank his lucky stars and Divine Providence that he did not get in. But like many reactionaries he has a deep desire to blame the Church's problems on the gays, on "gayness" per se. Anyways, as Thorp's article indicates, I told him that many of Giunta's statements  to me sounded like baloney. They sound like the tender mind of Eric could not stand being snubbed by the Church, and resulted in some sort of sudden mode of creativity. He clearly just made a lot of things up. I am not saying this to defend the Catholic Church, or God knows the Archdiocese of Miami, but to counter the obvious tactic of these reactionaries, which is to disparage gay people. Mr. Giunta is clearly a piker at, and a rube. He imagined to was going to uses some casuistical protocol to use the sharp gay journalist he had encountered in Mr. Thorp, and somehow score some points for his perfervid ambitions. Thorp proved again that just doing a lot of research will ultimately help one steer clear of a lot of extremes. The post scriptum is that Mr. Giunta is now mad again. And lets it show on RenewAmerica. He apparently thought he was going to engage me in his petty little campaign. Thus, he pestered me repeated on Facebook to become his "Friend". ERic gets wary, wary mad when snubbed.  His witless emissions on the internet would not have attracted me anyways, but knowing of his confabulatory tendency, no way. So tender Eric is taking the high-road and, if you can believe it, reading significance into my last name!! What an ignorant human being if he has no sense of German derivation, and to wit does he not love his German  Pope?!! Then continuing his mental rot, he pretends to have some ability to judge my sexuality and my marriage. And given that he repeatedly is talking of penises one assumes that he  in fact would have fit in well in seminary anyways, and that they rejected because he was obviously crazy. That this very unfortunate human being imagines that he can render some petty judgment on a successful marriage of mine for a quarter of a century is just another delusion. And a very unlucky one for him.

Allamericanboi2002
Allamericanboi2002

Excellent posting. If things are truly as bad as reported, why are the people involved and who know about all of these supposed bad priests, afraid to identify themselves. Any one can say anything they want if the will not identify themselves. And please, give me a break, all of the priests, rectors and bishops involved in the story are not saints, they are just good men trying their best to serve their people. As a former priest myself and I am so sick and tired of this constant attack on the clergy.former Fr. Dave

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

Former Fr. Dave,

Well, if your really were a priest, then you already know the answer to your question, Namely, that "not causing scandal" to the faithful basically trumps every other value in the church, including the lives of others, even children. It is a demented viewpoint, but, there it is. And try to deny it, I will call you out as a simple liar. 

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

Well, Hector, if there is to be a Dante-esque reality in all our futures, then the USCCB is going to have a real problem of logistics. Because the eternal concierge is going to be flummoxed with all the irate calls from  a huge swath of their former members saying their suites are terribly hot. And wondering why they keep smelling bar-be-cue outside the door. The concierge will say "but the very first thing he said on the mount was "Blessed are the poor in spirit."" And they will reply: "But I had to put myself out there to fight the scourge of two human beings with penises showing physical affection." And I have heard that the recordings of the St. Louis Jesuits are on continuous lop down there. And that a certain horned character particularly likes "Eagles Wings". But they are readying the last scene from Don Giovanni for an anticipated arrival because it is well known how much he likes Mozart. As well as Stockhausen's "Gesang der Junglige" in dark honor of his misdeeds institutionally towards the youngest and most defenseless. 

HECTOR GONZALEZ
HECTOR GONZALEZ

please just call me Hector..I am a human being with the head out of the ground.. (also ostrich are very intelligent animals)..the miseries we are talking about are present in every sector of our society...I am talking of improper behavior with younger people (not children) but the Church is the only one that keeps personal record of all it's members and this is why you can detect it so easily. On the Final Day of Judgement in Heaven..you will be very surprised when every human being will be forced to tell his or her private life.

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

Senor Gonzalez,

I guess one can never tire of saying the same damn thing: yes, human nature and faults and crimes are the same across the mass of humanity. BUT -- and for once can you actually listen to this goddamned BUT -- it is only in the Catholic Church with its centralized governance that this very statistically  unremarkable but hugely destructive  perversion was allowed to attain massive proportions. By the very centralized ability to move creeps around! Stop hiding behind general statistics. It is the hiddenness of the the governance that is the problem, and its attendant centralization. Get you head out of the the fucking Ground!

HECTOR GONZALEZ
HECTOR GONZALEZ

Ppfuchs, when being surprised because of the allegations, or perhaps just  "rumors" and "speculationss" regarding failing and lack of moral in some of our religious leaders,kindly, read the Seven Letters to the Seven Churches in the Book of Revelation and remember that some of the accused priests have always proclaimed their innocence.The Miami Herald today publishes some improper behavior in a Methodist Church Leader and the so distressing killing of a jewish boy by a person of that faith in Brooklyn..(if true)...these are signs that the improper behavior and criminal activities that you mention are (unfortunately) present in many sectors of our society.Think on it.It is not because we are catholics..but because our culture and western mind needs a metanoia..the one Jesus preached. but beleive me I trust our Bishops and clergy in their task of keeping the Church on the right track. and never abandoning the Gospel of Jesus.

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

If you have read anything about the whole church scandal since 2002, then you already know the answer to this question. One wonders if your posing it so rhetorically and neutrally does not have a sub rosa polemical purpose. For instance, in the particular cases of people having been the victims of the most dastardly molestation at very young ages, the church did not mind putting them further through the wringer with the most egregious tactics in court. This has been its pervasive approach. So seeking a relatively rapid settlement is only reasonable with these awful tactics routinely employed.  In doing  so also the Catholic Church has badly tarnished its of credibility, and many are left with the notion that they lack even common decency. Having actually been in the Church, and suffered my own  (lesser) travails with them, I am in the particular position of both disconfirming the matter generally for priests, and confirming it as a cultural matter. For as I have been at pains to say all around the internet, most priests were generally decent people. But the culture of the priesthood is quite demented, and  much worse than even makes it into the paper. To wit, a friend of mine who became a priest for years and  was asked to participate for this article, but chose not too for personal reasons, had this to say upon reading it: "Great article, but that's just the tip of the iceberg," 

HECTOR GONZALEZ
HECTOR GONZALEZ

we live in a confusing world where clear guidelines on how to be a christian (catholic) in this society need sometime more stressing, clarifications and more energy in our souls..but sometimes (being made) critics are based on just opinions and gossips...and really are not very solid...why people making accusations negotiate so fast money settelments and do not ask for a complete discovery??

David Werling
David Werling

As a former seminarian, I can say without hesitation, that you, Mr. Fuchs, are as guilty, if not more so, than Mr. Giunta of what you accuse of him of. You, sir, are not what you pawn yourself off as being, nor do you possess the knowledge of the Catholic faith that you contend you do. This makes you not just a fraud, but a hypocrite, as well.

Peter Paul Fuchs
Peter Paul Fuchs

Mr. Werling,

Your haste in judgment here is certain to confound your intent, whatever it might be. You seem to spent time watching too many pawn shows on TV, since you now seem into selling your soul for reactionary nuttiness,  and yet forget simply that money exchanges in those arrangements. I have received no money for telling the truth here. But let's look past your hyperbole for clarity's sake, again. What I have held myself out to be is that I was a seminarian for the Archdiocese of Miami. It should come as no surprise given all the odd characters in this story, that when I left this bizarre culture, they began to try to arrange facts for their CYA purposes. I heard about this from afar from contacts "on the ground" so to speak, but chose to let it go for a long time. In fact, for the many years intervening I said nothing. Reactionaries like you ham-handedly try to concoct a figure of many former people involved in seminary culture as a group of disgruntled folks. This mythic status is based in some reality, only some. Many do not fit that mold. And the fact that I said nothing for decades speaks for itself. So on that basic level your preening high dudgeon here is simply that, mere posturing. And the great irony of it is that you were in the seminary too!

But it gets worse. In fact that the inconvenient fact for these reactionaries is that I was the Valedictorian of St. John Vianney College Seminary for my class. Now to be Valedictorian of, as Thorp says, a "gay Hogwarts" is perhaps not the most shiny factoid, but it certainly militates against any idea that I was not serious, which I am is rummaging around the background of your polemical need to paint me as involved in some "fraud" here. A simple Google search around the internet will produce many reflections by me on myself in the seminary which are purposely  and intentionally not  necessarily  flattering to myself. I dare say I have been vastly more honest than most. I have done it for a reason. First, simply to pull the rug out from under types like you , who are so predictable in their desire, quite like the Church's tactic in defense generally, to try to cast aspersions on the person who is in fact the victim. All based on their tawdry little world of secret gossip, which is often the coin of the realm for priest exchange. It is a disgusting technique, and you fit well in it. Second, I feel strongly that if people are aware of the great complexity of the interpersonal binds that seminary experience leads to, there will be a movement for change. It is simply unfair and wrong to put people through such an experience when they are too young and naive to understand the ramifications of it. And, finally third, because I feel authentically for the plight of those personally committed to Catholic belief, in the non-fanatical sense. If the parameters of the problem are understood, there is some chance of change. 

Lastly, I am going to forego for a moment casual decorum, and lay it on the line. I know vastly more about the history and theology of the Catholic Church than about 97% participating in it. A great interest in intellectual history, which included religious ideas, has resulted in a lifetime of study. I am willing to joust to demonstrate this, just to show how merely polemical your intent was here. But I doubt you will lift a finger to engage, simply because like many reactionaries you are just talk. Poseur, heal thyself. 

Thom Wheeler Castillo
Thom Wheeler Castillo

Homosexuality, the psychological disorder? Its all love, man, between two consenting adults, its all love.

Peter Paul Fuchs
Peter Paul Fuchs

Mr. Giunta,

You are worse than previously thought. You are a con man. Indeed, you are an open book. For anyone who has an ounce of integrity you belong merely in the now very ample group. Reactionaries who are desperate to not appear to be what they are. Thus the con. Your views don't add up, and those that can be discerned clearly are very regressive. 

It is really something that you would cast doubt on the entire faculty of St. John Vianney College seminary implying that my having gotten the best grades was in some way related to my weird relationship with Kirlin. You know, one of the only good things about the seminary experience is that I actually had some very fine teachers, who were very serious. Only because you have prompted this matter I will mention the very profound philosophy professor Jose Solis-Silva, whom I still consider one of the most profound minds I encountered in life. That you would call into question the integrity of person like that, for no reason apparently, and with no cause, speaks volumes about you. You have my condolences about your evident perplexity and bad faith in life. 

Eric Giunta
Eric Giunta

Dear Mr Fuchs:

Get over yourself. Seriously. I am an open book, and my writing is available for everyone to see. It is clearly manifest that I am not homophobic; that I do not attribute the Catholic Church's crises to "gayness"; that I distinguish very clearly between homosexuality (i.e., the psychological disorder), sodomy (homogenital relations), and homosexualism ("gayness" as a quasi-religious ideology). You don't, because you subscribe to several superstitious assumptions about human nature, and nature generally.

My seminary experiences did not end before they began; quite the opposite. Subsequent to my experiences applying to Miami, I was accepted to the seminary formation program of another Diocese, went through the *complete* batter of interviews, *and* completed a psychological examination that I passed with flying colors. I eventually left that formation program, but did so on good terms. That diocese, I should mention, used to send their Hispanic men to St John Vianney, but has just recently stopped doing so, precisely because of that seminary's heterodoxy and sex-perversion.

You also must be confusing me with Bernie Kirlin; I only tried to "Friend" you twice on Facebook: first because I wanted to see whether you would be willing to interview for Thorp's story (this was presumably before your first interview with him), and secondly after the story was published. You see, I am not homophobic, and don't mind adding diverse personalities (homosexualist, leftist,or otherwise) to my social network. I thought maybe my first request (which was neither accepted nor rejected by you) might have just slipped below your radar. I responded to you, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, in my RenewAmerica editorial, but I don't carry a grudge.

Finally, I'm less than impressed that you graduated minor seminary valedictorian, considering you were sleeping with the rector. LOL

As I said, I'm an open book. Anyone can Google my name and see I harbor no hatred toward anyone, homosexual or otherwise, and that my politics are those of mainstream libertarian conservatism. I'm no nut, right-wing or otherwise.

Ray Marshall
Ray Marshall

And people get mad at the Church because it doesn't allow homosexuals to be priests.  But homosexuals lie, you see.  And this is what some of them do.  Not all of them.  Some of them are enough to do incredible damage to children and adults and to parishioners by the misuse of Church funds.

David Werling
David Werling

Most of them! They embrace a sickness, call it a lifestyle, and then to justify their choice they spend their lives, not living their choice, but doing everything in their power to shove it down the throats of everyone else.

When the liberals in the Catholic Church came to power in the wake of Vatican II they opened the door wide for the gays to ply this trade in the seminaries and rectories. It didn't just happen in the Miami Archdiocese. This happened nearly everywhere to various degrees.

Ppfuchs
Ppfuchs

I hope the very rabid Mr. Werling and his sort keep going with this kind of talk. But not as much as I hope that others, more enlightened and decent do not. I hope the rabid continue because that is a good way to keep them busy, and relatively harmless. They are lost to fanatical constructions of reality itself, and the proof of this is that every indication comes from Mr. Werling's rants that were the present Pope not leaning heavily in a backward direction that Werling would assume a sedevacantist position for sure. Or maybe already does, or at least surreptitiously. So much for his loyalty!  It hardly matters to the rest of us. But a review of Werling's very intemperate and humorlessly self-important digressions all over the most depressingly reactionary  Catholic websites, indicates a  personal disturbance of on some level. It would hardly make sense to find out too precisely. 

What is worth being precise about is the style of delivery that is almost universally employed by these types. Namely, to at once defend the so-called orthodox position and at the same time, when losing that defense, to say that there is no real need to defend what others take to be indefensible or even criminal characteristics. Those who are not intimately familiar with this convoluted style of argumentation frequently seem to have this whole effort fly over their heads unrecognized. It means essentially, to simplify a grab-bag of Thomistic and canonlawyerly positions, that the Church must be defended with techniques or rationales which fit under the morality commonly known as "by any means necessary". That is, that under a casuistical logic later developed by the Society of Jesus, even approaches that might be strictly objectionable under a general morality, are in the defense of the Church permitted. Then, if the battle is still being lost, recourse is given to the position that the Church is essentially in no need of defense anyways. In fact, another disturbed priestly type that I take note of on the internet from times to time, recently took time away from his posts threatening physical violence against lady theologians he does not like, to include this little gem from Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuits themselves. This is ironically given in an article entitled "Ignatius and the Crazies" in which he tellingly tries to defend the Catholic Church from the apparently, to him, frequent charge that it has a skewed sense of reality:

"Ignatius studied and became a priest. He founded the Jesuit order. He became famous for his unswerving adherence to Church teaching. ‘Something might look white to me, but if the Church teaches that it is black, then I conclude that it is black.’ 

Now I include this here frankly because it gives an Orwellian flavor to these present reactionaries. But we should get the historical perspective correctly for any insight. Ignatius Loyola was adumbrating  a view more in line with mystical notions of the "coincidence of opposites"  (coincidentia oppositorum) as well as a possibly  polemical one, which is more obvious. But the modern reactionaries have essentially eschewed deeper meanings and now their views are simply of a merely fantastical ultramontane character. But this is what allows them, by this labyrinthine ecclesiastical logic to believe that they can embrace the most heinous positions, and still think of themselves as the most love- filled people.

Of course normal reality in society tends to burn off all sorts of extremes, when the sunlight can shine on them. The trouble is vis-a-vis the Catholic Church that the style of governance they have been allowed to pursue in a democratic society has not only flouted the laws of that society, but also preclude any helpful burning off of these more retrograde characteristics. What matters about this story here is that it is one more colorful indication that the Catholic Church must not be allowed to continue to escape the natural and normal self-correction that comes with truly having to get along in society and meet its general standards. 

Jon Mack
Jon Mack

Blah, blah, here we go agin with commenters saying this can't be true. Well, the Vatican believed the report. What a weird church.

Church kills oaks
Church kills oaks

Church leaders molesting boys and Haitians killing trees at the Notre Dame site on NE 2nd Avenue at 62?

Why does the Archdiosese want to kill majestic oaks?

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